The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy

117. Navigating High-Conflict Couples Therapy: The Critical Importance of a Therapeutic Plan

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
In this powerful episode of the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, Drs. Ryan Reyna and James Hawkins dive deep into the critical challenge therapists face when entering couples sessions without a strategic approach. They explore the pitfalls of entering therapy unprepared and provide practical insights for maintaining therapeutic effectiveness. Conversation Outline:
The Therapist's Challenge
Emotional complexity of couples therapy
Sacrifices therapists make in helping distressed relationships
Importance of professional preparedness
Risks of Entering Sessions Without a Plan
Potential for therapist triangulation
Tendency to mediate instead of facilitating healing
Danger of getting caught in reactive cycles
Strategic Therapeutic Approach
Understanding the couple's emotional "muscle"
Developing a flexible, adaptive therapeutic plan
Focusing on attachment patterns rather than surface conflicts
Emotional Regulation Strategies
Preparing therapist's nervous system
Recognizing and interrupting destructive interaction patterns
Creating safety through structured intervention
Closing Summary: Your preparedness, empathy, and commitment create a transformative space where healing becomes possible—one vulnerable moment at a time. Remember: In the landscape of human relationships, you are not just a therapist, but a skilled navigator helping couples rediscover their fundamental connection.
Upcoming events, if you would like to train with James or Ryan…
You can do a joint Core Skills (Colorado) with Lisa J. Palmer-Olsen & Dr. James Hawkins. Core Skills Modules 1 and 2 will be held October 8-10, 2025, and Core Skills Modules 3 and 4 will be held January 7-9, 2026. You can register at https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado.
October 15-18, 2025, you can do an Externship with James in beautiful Bend, Oregon. You can register at https://www.counseloregon.com.
You can train with Ryan, as well as George Faller, doing a live and some time with James, at the annual Arkansas EFT Center externship. July 29-August 1, 2025, in person, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
We would like to invite everyone to come hang out and learn with the SV team at the first-ever SV Focus Lab. This is an advanced, EFCT training intending to push the edge with a focus on nuance in application, illuminating EFT and Sue’s incredible model.”
You can learn more and register by going to https://www.svfocuslab.com. Leading edge listeners who register before July 1 with the code svfocuslab.com/leadingedge get a 10% discount.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

116. Mailbag Episode (Validation and Enactments): Nicola Cameo

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
Summary: In this episode of the Leading Edge EFT Podcast, Dr. James Hawkins and his wife Nicola explore two critical questions from EFT therapists about navigating complex couple therapy moments. The discussion focuses on validation techniques, managing partner reactions during therapeutic interventions, and the nuanced art of creating emotional safety in couples therapy. Key Topics: Validation in EFT:
Validating attachment functions, not harmful behaviors
Balancing validation between partners
Recognizing the underlying emotional needs behind challenging behaviors
Therapeutic Enactments:
Navigating client resistance to sharing emotions
Helping clients express vulnerable feelings in new ways
Understanding the emotional landscape behind repeated communication patterns
Action Items:
Explore validation techniques that honor both partners' emotional experiences
Practice creating safety when challenging client interaction patterns
Consider attending upcoming EFT training opportunities
Memorable Quote: "You can earn the right to challenge after first meeting your client with validation."
Upcoming events, if you would like to train with James or Ryan…
You can do a joint Core Skills (Colorado) with Lisa J. Palmer-Olsen & Dr. James Hawkins. Core Skills Modules 1 and 2 will be held October 8-10, 2025, and Core Skills Modules 3 and 4 will be held January 7-9, 2026. You can register at https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado.
October 15-18, 2025, you can do an Externship with James in beautiful Bend, Oregon. You can register at https://www.counseloregon.com.
You can train with Ryan, as well as George Faller, doing a live and some time with James, at the annual Arkansas EFT Center externship. July 29-August 1, 2025, in person, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
We would like to invite everyone to come hang out and learn with the SV team at the first-ever SV Focus Lab. This is an advanced, EFCT training intending to push the edge with a focus on nuance in application, illuminating EFT and Sue’s incredible model.”
You can learn more and register by going to https://www.svfocuslab.com. Leading edge listeners who register before July 1 with the code svfocuslab.com/leadingedge get a 10% discount.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

115. Play It! Capturing the Moment, Discerning When to Use Shifts, With Here-and-Now Emotion and Longings.

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
This podcast episode focuses on the critical concept of "timing" in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), specifically when and how therapists should "play it" during therapeutic sessions. Hosts Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Reyna discuss the importance of recognizing and responding to vulnerable emotions and caregiving moments in couples therapy. Main Points:
Key Ingredients of a Secure Bond
Vulnerable, live emotion
Accessible, responsive, and engaged (ARE) caregiving system
Timing Considerations
Earlier in therapy: Play moments quickly (less room for vulnerability)
Later in therapy: More space to let emotions develop
Clinical decision-making about when to intervene
Critical Moments to "Play It"
When vulnerable emotion emerges
When a caregiving response is present
Before the moment passes or the cycle interrupts vulnerability
Risks of Not Playing the Moment
Clients may exit the vulnerable space
Emotional opportunities can be lost
Cycle of interaction can revert to negative patterns
Practical Advice
Catch and recognize emotional moments
Make clinical decisions about intervention
Prioritize creating space for emotional connection
The episode includes a role-play demonstration illustrating these principles, emphasizing the importance of therapist attunement and timely intervention.
Upcoming events, if you would like to train with James or Ryan…
You can do a joint Core Skills (Colorado) with Lisa J. Palmer-Olsen & Dr. James Hawkins. Core Skills Modules 1 and 2 will be held October 8-10, 2025, and Core Skills Modules 3 and 4 will be held January 7-9, 2026. You can register at https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado.
October 15-18, 2025, you can do an Externship with James in beautiful Bend, Oregon. You can register at https://www.counseloregon.com.
You can train with Ryan, as well as George Faller, doing a live and some time with James, at the annual Arkansas EFT Center externship. July 29-August 1, 2025, in person, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
We would like to invite everyone to come hang out and learn with the SV team at the first-ever SV Focus Lab. This is an advanced, EFCT training intending to push the edge with a focus on nuance in application, illuminating EFT and Sue’s incredible model.”
You can learn more and register by going to https://www.svfocuslab.com. Leading edge listeners who register before July 1 with the code svfocuslab.com/leadingedge get a 10% discount.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

114. The Resistant Client Series: Replace It! (w/ Corrective Emotional & Co-regulating Experiences)

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
Overview and Themes:
This podcast episode is the finale of the "Resistant Client Series," focusing on how therapists can transform client resistance into opportunities for deeper emotional connection and healing.
Main Themes:1. Understanding Resistance as Protective Behavior- Resistance isn't a problem to eliminate, but a weight-bearing mechanism protecting relationship dynamics- Every resistant stance has an attachment significance- Clients aren't being difficult; they're managing deep emotional fears
2. Theory of Change in EFT- Replace resistance with corrective emotional experiences- Help clients make clear emotional signals- Enable partners to provide compassionate comfort- Support clients in truly receiving and embodying that comfort
3. Clinical Wisdom- Don't lose hope with challenging clients- Trust the attachment map- Be intentional about vulnerability in therapeutic interventions- Focus on helping clients understand their own emotional experiences
Closing Summary:
In the intricate dance of human connection, resistance is not an obstacle, but a doorway. Each defensive stance whispers a profound story of fear, longing, and the desperate hope to be truly seen and loved. As therapists, our sacred work is not to dismantle these protective walls, but to gently illuminate the tender heart beating behind them.
We are architects of hope, helping couples rediscover the language of vulnerability, transforming cycles of pain into rhythms of connection. Every moment of resistance carries within it the seed of healing - waiting to be understood, honored, and transformed.
Keep pushing the leading edge. Keep believing in love's remarkable capacity to heal.
Upcoming events, if you would like to train with James or Ryan…
You can do a joint Core Skills (Colorado) with Lisa J. Palmer-Olsen & Dr. James Hawkins. Core Skills Modules 1 and 2 will be held October 8-10, 2025, and Core Skills Modules 3 and 4 will be held January 7-9, 2026. You can register at https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado.
October 15-18, 2025, you can do an Externship with James in beautiful Bend, Oregon. You can register at https://www.counseloregon.com.
You can train with Ryan, as well as George Faller, doing a live and some time with James, at the annual Arkansas EFT Center externship. July 29-August 1, 2025, in person, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
We would like to invite everyone to come hang out and learn with the SV team at the first-ever SV Focus Lab. This is an advanced, EFCT training intending to push the edge with a focus on nuance in application, illuminating EFT and Sue’s incredible model.”
You can learn more and register by going to https://www.svfocuslab.com. Leading edge listeners who register before July 1 with the code svfocuslab.com/leadingedge get a 10% discount.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

113. The Resistant Client Series: Bring it Forward to Work with The Live Emotion Under Resistance.

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
Key Highlights:
Counterintuitive approach: When clients become reactive, therapists should move towards the emotion, not away from it
Reactivity is a signal of underlying fear and pain that needs acknowledgment
The goal is to help clients organize and understand their emotional experience
Main Points:
Understanding Reactivity
Reactivity indicates a need for emotional organization
Therapists must first ground themselves to stay present
Look for cues like voice changes, slower pace, and "yes" signaling
Therapeutic Approach
Move towards the reactivity with curiosity and empathy
Co-create meaning with the client
Help clients understand the attachment function of their emotional response
Trust and Corrective Experience
Develop trust that vulnerable emotions exist beneath resistance
Be willing to take vulnerable steps before seeing the full result
Learn through practice and experiencing successful interventions
Practical Strategies:
Validate the function of protective behaviors
Slow down the process
Become an "attachment interpreter"
Closing Insight: EFT aims to help clients find flexibility in their reactive moments and connect with each other, not eliminate reactivity.
Upcoming events, if you would like to train with James or Ryan…
You can do a joint Core Skills (Colorado) with Lisa J. Palmer-Olsen & Dr. James Hawkins. Core Skills Modules 1 and 2 will be held October 8-10, 2025, and Core Skills Modules 3 and 4 will be held January 7-9, 2026. You can register at https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado.
October 15-18, 2025, you can do an Externship with James in beautiful Bend, Oregon. You can register at https://www.counseloregon.com.
You can train with Ryan, as well as George Faller, doing a live and some time with James, at the annual Arkansas EFT Center externship. July 29-August 1, 2025, in person, in Fayetteville, Arkansas. https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
We would like to invite everyone to come hang out and learn with the SV team at the first-ever SV Focus Lab. This is an advanced, EFCT training intending to push the edge with a focus on nuance in application, illuminating EFT and Sue’s incredible model.”
You can learn more and register by going to https://www.svfocuslab.com. Leading edge listeners who register before July 1 with the code svfocuslab.com/leadingedge get a 10% discount.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

112. The Resistant Client Series: Repetitively Reflecting Their Attachment Dilemma

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
This "Push the Leading Edge" podcast episode explores the concept of the "Attachment Dilemma" in therapy, focusing on how therapists can effectively work with resistant clients. Hosts Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Reyna provide insights, personal stories, and practical techniques for understanding and navigating client resistance using Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) principles.
Conversation Outline:1. Introduction- Upcoming EFT training events- Appreciation for EFT community leaders and volunteers
2. Attachment Dilemma Concept- Defining resistance in therapy- Metaphors: Bomb-sniffing dog, technology troubleshooting- Core idea: Clients are stuck between connection longing and protection strategies
3. Therapeutic Approach- Slow down the therapeutic process- Validate client's experience- Recognize there are "no good moves" in their current cycle- Demonstrate understanding of their stuck position
4. Demonstration Techniques- Exploring pursuer and withdrawer attachment patterns- Repetitive validation of the client's experience- Focusing on the emotional experience, not problem-solving
5. Key Takeaways- Trust the therapeutic process- Repeat understanding to help client's nervous system feel seen- Aim to help clients recognize their cyclical patterns
The episode provides a deep dive into compassionate, nuanced therapeutic intervention for challenging client situations.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
SV Focus Lab-https://www.svfocuslab.com/
Training Opportunities with James. 
Externship in Bend, Oregon - https://www.counseloregon.com/coeft/externship
Core Skills in Hourston - https://hceft.org/events/
Core Skills in Boulder Colorado - https://courses.efft.org/courses/2025-core-skills-colorado
Training Opportunities with Ryan. 
Externship in Indiana - https://www.indyeft.com/general-7
Externship in Northwest Arkansas - https://www.arkansaseft.com/events/externship
 

111. The Resistant Client Series: Realize This is Dysregulation

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
James and Ryan discussed the importance of recognizing and working with clients' dysregulation, emphasizing the need for therapists to move towards dysregulation and validate clients' emotional experiences. They also discussed practical strategies for addressing dysregulation and the significance of emotional dysregulation in therapeutic processes.
Introduction to Recognizing Dysregulation
 Introduces the topic of recognizing and working with dysregulation in resistant clients.
 And discuss the importance of capturing the moment of dysregulation and working with compassion and empathy.
 Shares a personal anecdote about experiencing dysregulation during a flight, highlighting the importance of recognizing and addressing emotional dysregulation.
Understanding Emotional Dysregulation
 Explains emotional dysregulation, emphasizing that it is a common issue in resistant clients.
 The importance of moving towards the dysregulation to address the underlying fear and pain.
 A metaphor about flying to illustrate the experience of emotional dysregulation and the need for validation and support.
The importance of training to recognize and respond effectively to emotional dysregulation in clients.
Practical Strategies for Working with Dysregulation
 Practical strategies for working with dysregulation, including capturing the moment and addressing the underlying fear and pain.
A story about a client who experienced dysregulation during a session and how the therapist helped the client recognize and befriend their dysregulation.
Emphasize the importance of meeting clients where they are and addressing their emotional needs.
The importance of pushing clients to address their dysregulation in a controlled and supportive manner.
The Role of Emotional Dysregulation in Therapy
Emotional dysregulation is a natural part of the therapeutic process and should be addressed with compassion and understanding.
It is important to recognize and address emotional dysregulation in clients to facilitate therapeutic change.
 A story about a client who experienced dysregulation during a session and how the therapist helped the client recognize and address their emotional needs.
The importance of training and practice in addressing emotional dysregulation effectively.
The Importance of Self-Care for Therapists
The importance of self-care for therapists who work with emotionally dysregulated clients.
 The need for therapists to increase their capacity to be dysregulated and to practice self-care to maintain their well-being.
Tips for self-care include taking breaks, practicing mindfulness, and seeking colleague support.
Series Overview
We are excited to announce the beginning of a new series focused on practical help when a client’s nervous system becomes entrenched and cannot open to their experience, their partner’s experience, or the clinical process. We want to help you with a clear frame of nuance and intentionality in this clinical experience.
General Outline of How We Plan to Cover This Presentation
Notice it and Asses It Accurately: Establishing Focus
Get in Front of it and Contain it
Realize it is Dysregulation: Track, Reflect, and Validate
Spend A Whole Session of Curiosity About the Experience
Show Impact and Cost- V:OUS
Cost to Self, Cost to Partner(s), Cost to the Relationship
Here & Now: Bring it Forward
Make it Experiential: Get it Replaced.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

110. The Resistant Client Series: Capture the Moment and Get in Front of It

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
In this episode, we address resistant client presentations, emphasizing capturing moments and containing reactivity. Techniques discussed included understanding the zone of resistance, organizing reactivity within the relational frame, and the metaphor of a combination lock to illustrate the process of unlocking client resistance. We highlighted the need for therapists to be assertive and attuned to clients' emotional states.
Outline
Upcoming Training Events and Externships
Ryan announces three core skill series training sessions in Huntington, West Virginia, from August 21 to 23, 2025, and January 15 to 17, 2026.
Ryan mentions two externships: one in Indianapolis, Indiana, from July 9 to 12, 2025, and another in Northwest Arkansas from July 29 to August 1, 2025.
James discusses an externship in Bend, Oregon, from October 15 to 18, 2025, and the SV Focus Lab in Northwest Arkansas from September 11 to 13, 2025.
James highlights the hybrid nature of the SV Focus Lab, allowing both in-person and online attendance.
Introduction to Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT)
Ryan shares a positive experience with the Minnesota EFT center, praising their leadership and intentionality in learning the model.
James reflects on the vibrant learning environment at the Minnesota EFT center, mentioning various leaders and their contributions.
To the resistant client series topic, focusing on containing space and getting in front of the resistant client dynamic.
Understanding the Zone of Resistance
The concept of finding the zone of resistance, where clients are stuck between hope and longing, and the importance of leaning into vulnerability.
There is a need to contain reactivity within the relational frame to prevent it from taking over the session.
An episode from the past (episode 64) about getting out ahead of resistance and shares a story to illustrate the point.
A session where George Fowler intervenes to prevent a pursuer's reactivity from escalating, emphasizing the importance of capturing the moment.
Capturing the Moment in EFT
The importance of capturing the moment in EFT, noting that missing key moments can lead to more escalation.
A personal anecdote about his early EFT training and the importance of creating a safe place for clients to process.
The concept of "78 harm," where seeing the same harmful move in the cycle multiple times indicates a need for a treatment plan.
The metaphor of a combination lock to describe the process of unlocking the client's resistance and creating a shift.
Strategies for Managing Resistance
A Rubric for managing resistance, including capturing the moment, unlocking the block, and repetitively mirroring the client's behavior.
The importance of not overdoing the lock metaphor and the need for attunement and assertiveness in EFT.
A story about a consultation with an experienced EFT therapist who was feeling demoralized due to a lack of progress with a resistant client.
The importance of capturing moments and creating a mental treatment plan to address the client's resistance.
The Role of Reflection in EFT
The importance of reflection in EFT, using Sue Johnson's phrase, "Can I try on what I think I'm seeing?"
A personal anecdote about the need for external validation to see one's reactivity.
The importance of not letting reactivity take over the session and the need for therapists to step in and address it.
The importance of capturing the moment and organizing reactivity within the relational frame.
Addressing Resistance in Therapy
The importance of addressing resistance in therapy, noting that ignoring it can lead to ineffective treatment.
A story about a consultation with a therapist who was struggling with a resistant client and the importance of capturing moments.
The need for therapists to be attuned to the client's resistance and to address it in a humanistic and compassionate way.
The importance of not skipping over reactivity and the need to privilege it to access underlying emotions.
The Importance of Clarity and Kindness
The importance of clarity and kindness in therapy, noting that it is better to take the chance of a rupture to help the client see their resistance.
There is a need for therapists to be assertive and to capture moments lovingly but unapologetically.
A story about a consultation with a therapist who was feeling demoralized due to a lack of progress with a resistant client.
The importance of capturing moments and creating a mental treatment plan to address the client's resistance.
The Role of Assertiveness in EFT
The importance of assertiveness in EFT, using the metaphor of a road trip to illustrate the need to address resistance.
The importance of not giving up on the model and the need to work with resistance instead of avoiding it.
On the importance of capturing the moment and organizing reactivity within the relational frame.
The importance of addressing resistance in a humanistic and compassionate way to help clients make progress.
Series Overview
We are excited to announce the beginning of a new series focused on practical help when a client’s nervous system becomes entrenched and cannot open to their experience, their partner’s experience, or the clinical process. We want to help you with a clear frame of nuance and intentionality in this clinical experience.
General Outline of How We Plan to Cover This Presentation
Notice it and Asses It Accurately: Establishing Focus
Get in Front of it and Contain it
Realize it is Dysregulation: Track, Reflect, and Validate
Spend A Whole Session of Curiosity About the Experience
Show Impact and Cost- V:OUS
Cost to Self, Cost to Partner(s), Cost to the Relationship
Here & Now: Bring it Forward
Make it Experiential: Get it Replaced.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

109: The Resistant Client Series: In the Moment Practical Strategies-Notice it and Asses It Accurately: Establishing Focus

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
We are excited to announce the beginning of a new series focused on practical help when a client’s nervous system becomes entrenched and cannot open to their experience, their partner’s experience, or the clinical process. We want to help you with a clear frame of nuance and intentionality in this clinical experience.
General Outline of How We Plan to Cover This Presentation
Notice it and Asses It Accurately: Establishing Focus
Get in Front of it and Contain it
Realize it is Dysregulation: Track, Reflect, and Validate
Spend A Whole Session of Curiosity About the Experience
Show Impact and Cost- V:OUS
Cost to Self, Cost to Partner(s), Cost to the Relationship
Here & Now: Bring it Forward
Make it Experiential: Get it Replaced.
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
 Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

108. Train Your Instincts so you can Trust your Instincts: Use of Self in EFT

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.
In this episode, Ryan interviews James about using himself as an intentional component in the therapeutic process. 
To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause.
We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.
Stay connected with us:
Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge
Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website
James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com
George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com
If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV).
Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!